Keeping Things Level
Posted on 23. Feb, 2010 by Merric in General, Opinions
Ferrel of Epic Slant has a good article summarizing his thoughts on the use of raising the level cap of their games and how it is unnecessary tactic to add value to a game that is past its prime. Ferrel makes some very good points, and operates off of the opinion that level caps are used for two reasons:
- “… to increase the length of time a player will take to consume a new expansion.”
- “… to allow head room for developers and create what is believed to be a clear progression.“
And while he does admit that level increases offer a “…clear progression and allow developers certain leeway to do other things,” such as new spells, gear, and monsters that level caps are not necessary and there are alternate ways to expand in the game. I think one clear example of that we can see is through Skirmishes which do not offer a form of actual “level” progression, but instead an advancement system that is based on traits and the collection of rewards. Certainly deeds, hobbies, and crafting are other examples of where progression is gained through an alternative to leveling.
However, I disagree with him that raising a level cap as being negative. As a player, I personally like the game that I am playing to advance in levels. I see a level cap as a goal, and without them I believe I would feel that the game would become stagnant. Of course, this could be boiled down to perception, but perception is a key part to whether a person continues to play a game or not. While certainly people would have marched into Mirkwood, Luclin, or Northrend (depending on what game you’re playing) without an increase in their level being a goal they (feel) must be obtained; I tend to fall on the other side of the fence stating that people would have been disappointed if there weren’t 5 or 10 more levels.
Also, as someone who played Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies that did not have a traditional leveling system when I played them, I have to admit that while I did play those games for a duration I feel in retrospect that these games provided a less focused form of character development. And I would argue that while they definitely had their moments for me, they do not have the draw that I personally cared for when it came to character development and progression. In essence, it was just plain disorganized and both developers of those games have heavily revamped their character progression since.
I like a form of level progression that is a linear path, and levels fulfill that requirement. Sure, I can hit level 65 in LOTRO, but I immediately look for another form of progression. If I choose to stick with my max-level character I would go about leveling deeds, leveling my crafting, going through dungeons, leveling reputation, raising my radiance, in essence trying to find another number game that would allow me to progress. Sure, they are forms of “alternative” progressions, but to me they are secondary to leveling. If you told me that I would never, ever be able to level past 65 over the coming years I would find it hard to believe that I would remain all that interested in the game. What makes me say that?
Well, look at the numbers of any MMO towards the end of their expansion cycle and then again with the release of a new expansion and I would say that what draws people back is the chance not only to explore new lands, but to level their character through those new lands. If you took away levels and just said “OK, go do these quests and get new deeds and traits” I don’t think that it would hold as much interest as it would when a player could see their character leveling at the same time. Ultimately, leveling a character is a way that players like to mark their progression through a game.
Ferrel also points out that levels isolate slower leveling people from those who level faster and that higher levels reduce the amount of viable content for max-level characters. I both agree and disagree. I see the points that he makes, and certainly they are valid. However, I’m not sure that people who have spent months in Moria and Lothlorien are in any hurry to go back, especially if they have completed most or all of their goals in those areas. Sure, they may go back for fun or to help others, but I would imagine that their focus would lay elsewhere such as Skirmishes and the new Mirkwood instances. As far as people being isolated by levels, while I would partially agree with Ferre’s reasoning I would also point out that other forms of progression such as quest, Epic Story, and gear can also isolate people from one another as well as social cliques. Speaking as the part of a “duo” that tends to be more often than not the one to rush ahead, with Mirkwood it was quest progression rather than level progression that caused the most problems for us.
However, I do agree with Ferrel, that level caps have started to get out of hand. I believe that EverQuest set the precedence of 10 levels per expansion and most companies have followed in their example. Whether there were numerical reasons to support their decision or it just sounded like a good number to companies, I don’t know. However we are starting to see with Turbine’s release of SoM and Blizzard’s upcoming Cataclysm that developers may agree since both releases have chosen 5 levels of advancement over their previous 10. Personally, I don’t find the level cap all that intimidating unless it “feels” intimidating. These days, both Turbine and Blizzard (as well as other companies) have made “playing catch-up” much easier. But while I don’t feel affected by a game’s level cap, Ferrel definitely has a point; if a new player didn’t know this, then seeing a level cap of 100 could be intimidating.
Ultimately though, I think there is some middle ground to be found here. While Ferrel suggests maybe a level or two for level raises, I think I am more comfortable with 5 although as quickly as I reached 65 I don’t think I would have minded going to 70; but 5 levels was just fine with me. However, I do believe that there does need to be more to do than just leveling. There needs to be crafting goals, reputation goals, as well as other new systems and revamped old systems changed as time goes by. Skirmishes have really helped with alternative forms of achievement in LOTRO and we’re seeing updates to other systems as well in Volume 3.1. Without alternative forms of progressions, no matter how many levels you’d add to a game, it would be dead in the water.







Diamond of Elendilmir
23. Feb, 2010
I like when my characters are able to level up… seeing the progression bar steadily move from one level to the next as I complete new content is satisfying. There is not nearly as much satisfaction from seeing a deed finished, because usually that deed is doing the same thing over and over and over (defeating X number of such-and-such monsters; using a skill X number of times,etc.). I also enjoy the progression of crafting, fishing (to some extent) and exploration.
The downside is that when everyone is progressing past the old level cap, those raids or instances which used to be the main source of gear or class items (and fun!) become obsolete and pretty much abandoned. This happened to my burglar who was only just starting to go to the Rift when Moria came out… she never did get to help defeat the Balrog and never did get the ultimate in burglar-cool gear: the mask-helm from the Balrog’s treasure chest. The other 2 characters I’ve taken to 60 have completely skipped over the old level 50 end-game stuff: the Rift and Helegrod, and most of Carn Dum and Urugarth.
Docholiday
23. Feb, 2010
I think the whole level vs progression is somewhat open to personal opinion as I can see both sides being motivating. For me I want to progress the power or coolness of my character as I play the game. So this recent Mirkwood expansion was a let down from that aspect even though we “gained” 5 levels. However, Moria hit both aspects as we got new traits, levels, skills, and all sorts of other goodies
Turbine has the potential to offer both options with the traditional character development and the skirmish system combined. Now ideally, they could knock it out of the park with a better legendary item system combined with those and the crafting system.
Dreadhed
23. Feb, 2010
I love to level. I enjoy the sense of accomplishment. It is why I work on alts. I love getting the new skills and gear that leveling allows.
Its not just about the grind for me as if it was I would craft, I generally don’t. I look forward to the next expansion and next level cap with relish, except having to decon my legendary items at next cap adjustment. Other than that I think for a MMORPG needs to have levels and cap adjustments when appropriate. Wether that is in 2,5,or 10 level increments it does not matter. I think I like the 5 of SOM, it allowed access to the end game content quicker, but with smaller increases they will have to be done more often.
I also think that turbine has likely laid out a path to Mordor which ends at 100.
Heiko
24. Feb, 2010
The base of MMORPG’s is making your character stronger over time. This gives the feeling of advancement, reward and it is what makes the games addictive. Advancement makes you keep playing the game.
While I could see other advancement paths than levels, they all would have the same problems. Say if there is an advancement path working with virtues or traits, something similar to the skirmish system: it will still create a division between strong characters and weak characters. It doesn’t matter whether the advancement is in levels or in some other mechanic. The same goes for the epic story line as you pointed out in this blog post. Or any other quest chain.
Besides: leveling is what I like most. It gives one of the best reward feelings in this game.
Callist
24. Feb, 2010
Really when you think about it games like lotro and wow use levels as a sort of gating mechanic. It feels the most natural out of all the gating mechanics i’ve seen and allows the world to feel more open and non-linear.
take for example guildwars, their gating mechanic past level 20 was simply completing an area. After completion you could warp around as you pleased but moving ahead you had one path you could take and to move further along you had to take it.
With Lotro look at moria, there is easily 10 levels of content there, probably 15 or 20 if you did it all. But if you took a single path (out of the many avaliable) from one side to the other you would most likely end up 10 levels higher, and at level 50 if you ran ahead to the 2nd hall you would get murderd quickly. Same way with mirkwood, there really is only about 5 levels of content there.
The progression and choice of how many levels to increase felt very natural, I belive they chose well. And i’m also one of those people that once i hit level cap, i start to get kind of bored. generally if there is never another level raise eventually I find something else to do.
Alternate Advancement Paths « Doc Holiday's LOTRO Blog
24. Feb, 2010
[...] } So just a day after posts (and good conversations as well) on both the Epic Slant and Casual Stroll to Mordor blogs, I saw this announcement on MMORPG.com on the upcoming expansion for Age of Conan. Now I [...]
Ferrel
02. Mar, 2010
You’ve made some really great points here and I do have to say the leaning on this will largely depend on why you play an MMO.
The biggest hitch I see is how someone defines a goal. Why do they play, etc?
To stop raising the level cap a developer would largely have to redefine what their players goals are.
That said, I argued the extreme but in reality I never mean to stop increasing level caps all together. The real desire here is to reign it in. Less often and less levels!